Lunatic Pat Robertson is at it again, this time claiming that the magnitude 7.0 earthquake in Haiti had nothing to do with the shifting of tectonic plates, but is God’s revenge. For what, you wonder?
PAT ROBERTSON: And, you know, Kristi, something happened a long time ago in Haiti, and people might not want to talk about it. They were under the heel of the French. You know, Napoleon III and whatever. And they got together and swore a pact to the devil. They said, “We will serve you if you will get us free from the French.” True story. And so, the devil said, “OK, it’s a deal.”
And they kicked the French out. You know, the Haitians revolted and got themselves free. But ever since, they have been cursed by one thing after the other. Desperately poor. That island of Hispaniola is one island. It’s cut down the middle. On the one side is Haiti; on the other side is the Dominican Republic. Dominican Republic is prosperous, healthy, full of resorts, et cetera. Haiti is in desperate poverty. Same island. They need to have and we need to pray for them a great turning to God. And out of this tragedy, I’m optimistic something good may come. But right now, we’re helping the suffering people, and the suffering is unimaginable.
That’s right. God is angry because Haitians, former slaves brought to the one-time French colony, made a pact with Robertson’s favorite deity’s nemesis to kick the French out of Haiti in 1791 (initial slave revolt, rejoining France in 1794) and again in 1804 (for good this time).
Boukman (also Boukmann, Dutty Boukman or Zamba Boukman) was a leader of the rebellion in its initial stages, he is reputed to have led a vodou ceremony together with the mambo Cecile Fatiman at Bois Caïman on August 22, 1791 which signaled the start of the rebellion . . . Other participants at the Bois Caïman ceremony were Georges Biassou, Jeannot Bullet and Jean François Papillon, all of which were leaders of the early Haitian Revolution.
Boukman’s prayer, as reported, is clearly Satanic!
“The god who created the earth; who created the sun that gives us light.The god who holds up the ocean; who makes the thunder roar. Our God who has ears to hear. You who are hidden in the clouds; who watch us from where you are. You see all that the white has made us suffer. The white man’s god asks him to commit crimes. But the god within us wants to do good. Our god, who is so good, so just, He orders us to revenge our wrongs. It’s He who will direct our arms and bring us the victory. It’s He who will assist us. We all should throw away the image of the white men’s god who is so pitiless. Listen to the voice for liberty that sings in all our hearts.”
It is worth noting that there was no recording made at this event; another prayer is reported by Heinl and Heinl, in their Written in Blood: The Story of the Haitian People, 1492 – 1995
Good Lord who hath made the sun that shines upon us, that riseth from the sea, who maketh the storm to roar; and governeth the thunders, The Lord is hidden in the heavens, and there He watcheth over us. The Lord seeth what the blancs have done. Their god commandeth crimes, ours giveth blessings upon us. The Good Lord hath ordained vengeance. He will give strength to our arms and courage to our hearts. He shall sustain us. Cast down the image of the god of the blancs, because he maketh the tears to flow from our eyes. Hearken unto Liberty that speaketh now in all your hearts.
If it’s not praising Robertson’s favored deity, it is praising Robertson’s favored deity’s nemesis . . . SATAN, the freer of slaves! SATAN, the Lord of Liberty! (Um, OK.)
God, of course, decided to wait two hundred and six years before wreaking his vengeance with the earthquake, until every one of the people who prayed to someone other than him — and got what they prayed for — was long dead. After all, as Robertson will tell you, the sins of the fathers are laid at the feet of the sons:
Ezekiel 18:19-20
19 Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live.
20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Oh, wait. No, it doesn’t say that at all! It says that the sins of the father shall NOT be borne by the children! Could Robertson be wrong again?
And what of the Christian church group members who were “missioning” in Haiti, many of whom are also dead or missing? Did God smite them by accident? Does he have bad aim? Or were they all secretly there to join in the devil-worship?
Apparently, God’s not in favor of Catholic missionaries . . .
Two Americans with another church were rescued from the rubble of their mission house.
Jillian Thorp and Charles Dietsch of the Catholic Diocese of Norwich, Connecticut, were pulled from the remains of the three-story house after a night of digging by four mission workers, Thorp’s father said.
Christian churches weren’t spared, either.
The pastoral staff at Free Chapel, a nondenominational church in Gainesville, Georgia, used Skype on Tuesday night to reach Bobby and Sherry Burnette, the couple who run the church’s permanent mission in Haiti, Executive Pastor Richie Hughes said.
“Our work there suffered different levels of damage,” Hughes said. “The housing areas are OK, minor damage, but one of the churches connected was destroyed.”
Robertson appears to have no explanation for the 200-year delay in God’s Wrath; however, we fully expect him to pay a visit to Haiti in the next few days. After all,
Psalm 58:10
The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance: he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked.
Now, you can join Robertson in prayers praising God for punishing the evil devil-worshipping Haitians, and washing your feet in their blood, or you can do something real and useful.
Why not join us in donating to the Red Cross‘s Haitian Relief Fund, or perhaps to Partners in Health? Or how about the Center for Inquiry’s “Skeptics & Humanists Aid and Relief Effort” (SHARE), which will forward 100% of donations to Doctors without Borders? Just click the image below!
UPDATE! Even WorldNetDaily is now coming out against Robertson’s bizarre remarks. They reviewed the work of Dr. Jean R. Gelin, a distinguished Haitian Christian minister and researcher. In a 2005 series of articles on the subject, Gelin wrote:
Obviously, the idea that Haiti was dedicated to Satan prior to its independence is a very serious and profound statement with potentially grave consequences for its people in terms of how they are perceived by others or how the whole nation is understood outside its borders. One would agree that such a strong affirmation should be based on solid historical and scriptural ground. But, although the satanic pact idea is by far the most popular explanation for Haiti’s birth as a free nation, especially among Christian missionaries and some Haitian church leaders, it is nothing more than a fantastic opinion that ultimately dissipates upon close examination.”
Gelin continued,
The worst part of the whole picture is that the story is believed by many sincere Christians in America and around the world; and not only do they believe it, they also spread it as fact.
We did a little hunting, and found Gelin’s articles, “God, Satan, and the Birth of Haiti” here: Part I, Part II, and Part III.
Perhaps Robertson believes the stories of the Iron Pig?
For quite some time now, several articles on the Internet have mentioned the existence of an iron pig statue in Port-au-Prince as a monument to commemorate Haiti’s so-called pact with the devil through Vodou. The statue would be in remembrance of a pig that was killed during the gathering by the African slaves. In an effort to know more about that rumor, I contacted several authors about the exact location of the pig statue that’s incidentally nowhere to be found in the country. Their answer was complete silence, a simple apology, or just the removal of the reference from their texts.
Gelin continues dispelling the myth in Part II.
The proponents of the supposed pact continuously refer to the Bois-Caïman gathering as the place where the satanic contract supposedly took place, even in the absence of solid historical evidence save their own prolific imagination. After extensive research on Haiti and several visits to the country, American writer Robert Heinl and his wife Nancy Heinl published in 1978 a volume on the Haitian revolution that deals with several aspects of Haiti’s painful history including the Bois-Caïman meeting. According to these authors, Bookman sought the help of the God of heaven in his prayer, and made no mention whatsoever of a spiritual agreement with Satan. Even though the text shows Bookman was talking to the creator and not the devil, some would still contend that he could not have been really talking to God because – the way they see it – Bookman did not know God as they think they know Him.
In addition to the complete absence of any reference to Satan or to a spiritual pact in Bookman’s prayer, there are two other problems associated with such an interpretation of the available records. First, those who hold that view say implicitly that God was in favor of slavery in Saint-Domingue whereas Satan himself was against it. How would they know? And how could that be?
The second difficulty of that position lies in the fact that God is above all as the God and creator of all. What do I mean? The Bible contains many instances where God was involved with or answered the sincere prayers of people who were not partakers of His existing covenant but nevertheless acknowledged His existence, power and character. The supremacy and sovereignty of God is a central and undeniable truth in both the Old Testament and the New Testament. To deny this fact would be to lean toward what I call tribal theology, usually conceived or expressed in terms like these: if you are not a registered member of our church and if you do not serve and worship God the way we do, God cannot and will not answer your prayers.
Whether you believe that gods and devils are real or not, there is no evidence other than the testimony of humiliated French soldiers to support the assertion that Haitians made a pact with anybody in 1791.
This is sickening and I wish there was some way to have all his money given to the people of Haiti
Why would you want all his money to go to a country who has legalized Voodoo? What benefit will come from that? Pat Robertson – who uses his money for many Godly and good endeavors. He is a true man of God – and is one of few who have the guts and fears God enough that he will not be hindered in speaking what God reveals to him. IF it’s no a popular thing to say at the time – so be it – it is the truth.
Pat roberson is so wrong, this guy always have a story to say, remember haiti used to name hispagnola..only Indians..The French came and killed the Indians, what happened: Brought the African to haiti, then they became slave, it’s not about the devil. Remember what ever you do, you’ll pay for it, it’s not because of the ceremony they did. who killed the Indians when haiti used to name Hispagnola..Earthquakes happen everywhere.., Who ever killed the Indians need to be punished…I am still Proud of my country…Everywhere practice voodoo on they own way..Stop giving false stories about Haiti, you are the one who is going to hell for giving false stories about haiti and judjing us for no reason. You need to translate the word in the bible much better if you are a Christian..Not JUDGING people.
i think your because satan has no power over the olrd.also waht happened in haiti it can happen any where ,every nation practices voodo,and haiti isnt the only poorest counrty.dont for get Africa,Jamacia,even americans practice boukman.okay bouk did go to haiti but that doesnt mean every haitian person practices voodo.during the american reoultion america asked haiti and the french to help them win the fight. becuase they had lost the first time when fighting the British.
in america there is also people who are homeles and dont have anywhere to leave who are living in the streets. just like haiti.
Thank you so much for the clarity of your article, it does horrify me that a man that leads so many could make statements such as he does. I’m sorry for the deaths that have occurred in Haiti and I am truly sad to say this, but maybe this crisis will bring the help that that nation finally needs to become a function democratic society and the people left will get a fresh new start to have a life worth living.
wow what can you say to this
Dutty Boukman From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search Dutty Boukman was a houngan, or vodoun priest whose death was considered a catalyst to the slave uprising that marked the beginning of the Haïtian Revolution.[1] Contents [hide] 1 Background 2 Ceremony at the Bois Caïman 3 Death and legacy 4 References 5 External links [edit] Background Boukman was born in Jamaica, and later sold by his British master to a French plantation owner, who put him to work as a commandeur (slave driver) and, later, a coach driver. His French name came from his English nickname, “Book Man,” which he earned due to his ability to read. [edit] Ceremony at the Bois Caïman On 22 August 1791, Boukman presided in the role of houngan (priest) together with an African-born priestess and conducted a ceremony at the Bois Caïman and prophesied that the slaves Jean François, Biassou, and Jeannot would be leaders of a slave revolt that would free the slaves of Saint-Domingue. A pig, which symbolized the wild, free, and untamable spiritual power of the forest and the ancestors, was sacrificed, an oath was taken, and Boukman and the priestess exhorted the listeners to fight bravely against their oppressors. Days later the Haitian Revolution began.[2] Boukman was not the first to attempt a slave uprising in Saint-Domingue, as he was preceded by others, such as Padrejean in 1676, and François Mackandal in 1757. However, his large size, warrior-like appearance, and fearsome temper made him an effective leader and helped spark the Haitian Revolution.[3] [edit] Death and legacy Soon after the uprising began, French authorities captured Boukman and executed him by beheading. The French then publicly displayed Boukman’s head in an attempt to dispel the aura of invincibility that Boukman had cultivated. However it remained strong, and their attempt failed. A fictionalized version of Boukman appears as the title character in American Communist writer Guy Endore’s novel Babouk, a leftist and anti-capitalist parable about the Haitian revolution. Haitians honored Boukman by admitting him into the pantheon of loa (Vodou spirits).[4] Now since no one practices Voodoo or any other pagan practice , you have no idea what was said or promised at this ceremony if there was one. I would at least expect people with half a brain to research it all out . what does the bible say about practicing witchcraft , it curses the land, sin curses the land. If that is how that nation was founded what do you think? I just think there is more to this “legend”. My ex husband was haitian and told me stories about his uncle who was the high voodoo priest in Haiti before he and his family came to the states. So I wouldn’t doubt this story is true. I could see if people researched Voodoo practices and such. And one more thing , it doesn’t matter how much or how many christians are in a land. The bible says “If the people who are called by my name humble themselves and pray then I will hear from heaven and HEAL THEIR LAND” so maybe it’s time for a pray movement in Haiti. I am not saying GOD did it, but the wages of sin is death . If that nation did not have someone who prayed for forgiveness for their ancestors issues . Anyway just research both sides before you assume anything. I see since you don’t know satan you wouldn’t know that in Luciferian he is the light bearer and lord of all that fly. Since he was a voodoo priest and they do not worship the GOD of the Bible hmmmmm , how come you did not research on the Voodoo Religion so you can speak CLEARLY of both sides.
I agree, It is a cursed land. As far as God delaying his wrath 200 years – he really hasn’t. The country has seen one mess after another and they live in such poverty. In the Spiritual Realm and as the time of the return of Christ gets closer things are getting worse. People need to heed the word of wise men and women of God. Listen to the warnings….
I want to clarify – what has happened is a horrible thing. The children and all the innocent people are the victims – but If they as nation would turn to God and cry out to God for help and repentance – his Grace will come… God didn’t do this – Satan did. But if the people turn there faces and hearts to God it could be the start of a great move of repentance and revival.
So, you’re saying that God afflicted innocents with horrible punishment for the sins of others?
Jenny – God is not the author of tragedy – he has allowed Satan to have his way with that country 1. because they made a pact with Satan and since then they have been paying for it – yes even the innocent and 2. He is waiting for those people to repent- Voodoo is an actual legal religion in that country – it’s Satan ruling there and this is what happens when you let Satan rule – God is waiting for people here in the US to repent. I am telling you the second coming of the Lord is on its way – and the people who laugh at people like Pat Robertson will see that he is right – he is one of the only ones who have enough guts to say it in the midst of this mess and it is not the popular thing to say. Repentence is what God wants – not this mess.
So, you are saying that God allows the sins of the fathers to be visited upon the children, in direct contradiction with His Word? Why are you calling God a liar?
I am saying that God is a God of Grace – he will look upon the country of Haiti with mercy if they pray to him – not a Voodoo priest for mercy. The people of Haiti -Just as people in America need to repent so God will pour his Grace upon them. The sins of the father are upon those who choose to follow in their fathers foot steps… The innocent children who don’t have a clue to what is going on are another story – but those who choose to carry on the mistakes of the past such as the Voodoo worship will suffer the same issues as their fathers in the future…. It’s times like these were God allows (he doesn’t do the deed) Satan to carry out these tragedy’s so that the people will cry out to him in repentance…. I am not judging them – America is in the same boat – we need to repent as well…
hey, Haiti is not a curse, how would you feel if Whatever nation come to your country and killed all the people include you, and bring an another nation in that country. well get your information right before you start judging…Stop giving false information.. By the way who killed the INDIANS when haiti used to be HISPAGNOLA..is it in the Bible…Danm i feel bad for you…judging a nation due to a natural disaster..when you get sick..does it mean because you are a sinner..or does it mean because a child of God..since we all know that ..BAD and GOOD so we are a sinner… We took our independence now you guys want to judge us…don’t get too excited. God can judge us, look what happened Some American came to haiti to try some children so they can sell them or do whatever..you know what God will always protect us..Problem is everywhere…not only Haiti…Since you guys can see our problems because we were the first who took our independence.. Let’s help each other instead of giving false information to other. Hey Pat roberton , you should check yourself out…because you are not doing a good job out there.
Hi, I agree with all that has been said. It is truly unfortunate that this tragedy has happened, and my heart as does many, goes out to the survivors, and victims of this travisty. However, as some have said, and I reiterate, the coming of the Lord is very soon. No, we don’t know the day or the hour when the son of man shall appear, but when HE appears, we MUST be ready. I believe that this disaster, as well as the war in Iraq, and the continued unsettling in and around that area, and every other catastrophe, and worldwide crisis, ARE events to pave the way for the second coming of Christ. No, it’s not God’s way of punishing “people” because He distinctly said in His word that “I come not to condemn the world, but that the world thru ME might be saved.” Nevertheless, precise patterns of things to come in the world (before Christ’s return) are and have already happened, such as what has happened here. However, HE gives all of us a “will” and “choice”, and it’s up to us to make the right choices. HE IS a merciful, loving and forgiving God, but HE is a “sovereign” God as well, meaning, in our terms, He means what He says, and does what He means! He does not bend the rules of wrong just to please us. He IS our father, and as a father, because He loves us, He chasteneth (or reprimands, scolds, disciplines) us when we do wrong; just as any good father or mother would do to their child because they want to see them do right and act right. It IS unfortunate that innocent people lost their lives in this, but I too pray, expect, and believe that even through some of their voodooish ways of living, of which we all know, who “live” by the word of God and who embrace the true Love of God thru His holy spirit, that Light (Jesus Christ) and Darkness (satan) does not “walk together” or mix; Nevertheless, when God gets enough, He gets enough, and what satan has caused to happen to “God’s people” in Haiti, (since we ALL were created by Him), by stealing, killing and destroying the minds of those continuing in the sin of voodooism(sin), I believe God was saying “ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! I’m soon to come back and it’s time to put things in order!” Regardless to how long it took or takes, God has the power to do “exceedingly above ALL that we could ever ask or think!” Nevertheless, what the devil means for “evil” God WILL turn around and mean for good (to them that choose to go HIS way); It’s just like in Moses time when the children of Israel were in the wilderness after being freed from the clutches of the Egyptians, and they were disobedient when Moses when up to the Mount to obtain the 10 commandments; and came back down only to find many that had gotten disheartened, and impatient because they didn’t “SEE” results. Many who refused to turn from their evil and fully latch on to God were killed; while there were others that survived; and through their survival and mindset to change, those that remained, made it to the Promised land. Likewise, many here were destroyed, not that they were ALL bad, but with calamaties unfortunately comes many innocent. Nevertheless, I truly believe that because God knows every one of us, HE saw fit for those whose hearts were right, young and old, to be saved; Likewise, God yet compels, and has opened arms to receive those that remained and/survived, to NOW hopefully turn to Christ thru repentance (TRUE LOVE NEVER FAILS EVEN IN THE WORST OF TIMES); As my dear sister said above, and as the word of God declares, “If my people which are called by name would “humble” themselves and “pray”, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven, and will heal their land. I believe that God gives ALL a chance at some point and time to turn from OUR “wicked” ways, and I believe there were many that perished who were wicked in God’s eyesight, but who had the opportunity to turn from their “wicked” ways many times, but refused. The time is NOW for US as true Christians to lend a hand in prayer, finances, whatever we can do to help the survivors reclaim what “satan” has taken from them for so long-their freedom in Christ, and their dignity within the human race, that is SO PRECIOUS! Because you see, when satan is “allowed” to take control of your mind, your will, and your desire, he has you, and has no intention of letting you go. He doesn’t give you a 2nd, 3rd, 4th chance like our merciful God does. If satan can’t have you, he’d rather kill, steal and destroy you while he has you out there in sin, so that he knows you have no opportunity of making it in, and you’ll be destroyed right with him in the end! That’s why he seeks to devour your mind of thinking and leaves you empty as if you’re in a foreign land, and have no “will” to fight doing wrong, but just go with the motions, like your out of body or something, and can’t control your desire to do wrong, and actually you are and can’t under satan’s clutches! He doesn’t want you to realize you’re doing wrong, so he makes you think you’re doing right, when all along you’re out of the will and purpose of God for your life. It’s not time to rally around separatism, but to come together as ONE for a common goal of LOVE – for the bible declares that “Love covers a multitude of sin”. God’s will is that “none” should perish, but that ALL would come to repentence. Time is winding up, and WE ALL Must be ready to answer the call. Let’s help the Haitians find their way to Christ, and be assistance in rebuilding what those christians/ individuals, that through a heart of love, were there to help do by bringing joy, love, laughter, and worth to them; but most of all, lets give to help the love of Christ thru His spirit find a place in their hearts most of all, while lending a hand to help many be found, as well as those having survived build themselves up naturually, emotionally, and economically. Doesn’t matter if you feel they’re in sin, which we’ve ALL sinned and come short of the glory of God. Who are WE to judge!! God is the judge. He created us in the image of Him, and He is LOVE!! “Faith WITHOUT works is dead – meaning we can talk the talk – but without putting our talking into action and actually doing something, even in the smallest way (prayer, monetary, etc.)all of our talking means absolutely nothing! So lets pull our forces together to do SOMETHING! I know I/we will! This is just my opinion. Blessings, Karen
Hello to all. Praise the lord Jesus Christ. It was just Monday night before the earthquake hit Haiti. The lord spoke thru an individual whom allowed the holy spirit to use her. And the warning was as follow “this is a warning for the church there will be destruction and descreation fear not your heart for I am with you” then the next day less then 24 hrs the earthquake hit Haiti. To all those whom put their opinions up here it doesn’t change god and his plans nor his regulations for life here on earth. Yes church believer Christians died however in the word “bible” 1john 3:16 That we ought to lay down our life as god laid down his life. So once you understand there in your heart that Jesus is real and he is god you will understand the bible. You will also understand that there is a heaven and hell. Best of all there is eternal life for those whom believe in Jesus and are reborn of the spirit being baptize in name of Jesus and being born of the spirit. Recieving Jesus christ in your heart and you will speak innother tongue. I pray all that is reading this please don’t put your opinion in we know opinons doesn’t hold much. Our opinion and disobidience doesn’t make god less of a god. Trust in him and he will take you out of the kindgom of darkness into his marvoulous light. This is not a time to play but a time to pray!! I pray that the world will wake up. God is real demons are real Satan is real. Read your bible before it’s too late!!!!
@Corey: WHo had this dream because a friend of mine had one too and she said that Christ said ” in two weeks Jesus had an appointment with you”. My friend took it as a day/year principle and I responded that it could have a literal 14 day sign to confirm that Jesus is coming back. I counted down the days and I scan google and just when I was going to conclude that the dream was incorrect a phone call verified of Haiti’s catastrophe verified and confirmed the dream. It is sad to see this happening to haiti but when I researched earthquakes Jesus called them labor contractions which means as we get closer to the second coming of Jesus the intensity of these earthquakes and the frequency are going to increase in diverse places.
It was not a dream we were all in prayer on on accord. Then I was in the spirit speaking in tongue to god then when I stop my sister at church was prayer then Start speaking those exact word also state that the rapture is near. What people fail to realize the word of god is real and alive and true. If you have a pastor and congregation serving the led out of genuine love god will come thru. He always comes thru. I only been saved for 15 months and I was judgemental and said that Jesus and god is fake. I would even dare to think or utter those word now. Jesus is real and reigns forever.
So this person knew that the earthquake was going to happen and they uttered the words,”this is a warning for the church there will be destruction and descreation fear not your heart for I am with you”. Well I hate to knock what was revealed to you but that could be interpreted anyway….the dream my friend had was very specific 2 weeks or 14 days.
It was interpretated from tongue to English. Any how you put it. They were both warnings. Warnings for the church body of beleievers. My congreation heard it in prayer and yours got visions. What we all need to is evaluate ourselfs and study the bible rightly dividing the word of truth. Making sure we are doing what the master said to do. Like really pray and fast cause his word are soon to come to pass. It says save yourself. Remember if you are born again of the water and spirit you have the power and authority or the devil and you can defeat Satan demons and SIN!! Be encouraged!!
I cannot believe that this day and age… people is so naive in believing in god or religion… Religion has been the major factor in most of the wars of the past and the troubles now in the Middle East. If only people would realize that the truth lies in science not religion this world would be a better place. All the progess of mankind has is through science and evolution.. cant believe you fool who believe there was a pact with the devil… truely you are ignorant fools
So why ain’t the world still evolving?? 2000 years since Jesus walk the earth and we still walk the same and look the same. Science is a study. There will be a time when every tongue will confess the truth. It’s amazing that there people put their trust in man and not in god. It is impossible for your mother to have a mother and her mother and her mother to have a mother. That tell you their is a begining. If we came from the sky we would bust our heads on the ground. If we came from the ground we would suffocate. So that tell you something put us here. That something is god which is a spirit. God form men and women and created reproduction so that is the way of life. Just try Jesus sincerely and you will have all your question answers. All what science is confused on you will have answers. You must want a change in your life for Jesus to work miracles in it. You must have faith for god to reveal himself to you. How does the bird fish dog pig horse insect have eyes and all use it for the same thing as us?? How can we all look so differnent but has eyes nose and mouth and use them all for the same purpose?? How can the women around the world carry their babies for 9 months but then believe and all these different god. Don’t you think all this gods are thinking alike to have all these women give birth the same way?? That because there is one true living god and that is Jesus. I used to be lost and I denied god and lived my life in self. It was about how it thought and how I felt. Not realizing if god never put any of us here we wouldn’t even be able to express our opinion. So really think you have it in you. Do not let Satan continue to mess with your mind. One thing I have learned. Is when you are serving sin Satan has you so caught up in pride and self he doesn’t bother you. You just go along throughout your say serving the creature instead of the creator. However when you really search for god with all your heart you will find him. Cause in the bible says he will give you the desire of your heart. And if you do that now the devil will make in his appearance. All those time when you were just angry that you didn’t know why you got so upset. Or when you were like I can’t believe I would do something like that. The dark forces will manifest. They talk. They make you say and do hateful things. Demon are real my friend. Sometime people can not even say a prayer with curses god tha because there are demonic forces out there. Well I pray whomever read this get something out of this. And if anyone has any question we can take this off this speak more. Everything is in the bible read it.
Have you ever heard of a resistant strain of bacteria? Google “MRSA” if you want for a great example. That is a prime example of evolution in action. The world (or at least the plants, animals, bacteria, and fungi on it) IS still evolving.
I don’t deny micro evolution but deny macro evolution. All evidence are inconclusive but yet secular scientist with their agendas push theory as fact,
Upon what do you “deny” macroevolution?
I deny macro evolution because what popular science aka the media wants to push as fact the real scientist are still unsure. Plus anyone who has read Darwin knows that he had a basis by which his theory could be disproved which we do have but yet no one seems to emphasis that aspect of his theory. If you want to know what that basis might be then go read Darwin. The truth is real genuine science doesn’t disprove God but in reality just how amazing and complex his creation. Also you want an intelligent God who created you and I to play by are rules such as be subjected to the scientific theory. A theory that operates by doubt but God will not give you any evidence of his existence if you have doubt but will give you more than enough evidence if you have faith. An addition from a logical stand point if you want to entertain that the bible is is true to argue the existence of God then you must take into account that the Devil if real would push theories and ideologies that are complex enough to keep individuals from figuring out the truth. The biggest evidence of his existence is the proper interpretation of prophecy and cross referencing with history then with those historical evidences proving that there is someone more powerful that can give such pin point accuracies then you can assert that possibly other parts of the bible are true also. So this notion of a blind faith is a lie cause in the old testament God provided historical landmarks as evidence and through out history there are events that serve the same purpose.
Wow and you mean you aren’t able to prove that marco is false. You are the one making the claim that it is false and it is your job to support that view with facts. Just saying that there is a way to prove evolution wrong by reading Darwin, why haven’t you done this for the world. You seem to think that the bible is actual history and you use it to prove it is. Show your evidence that is not biblical but from historians of those times. It doesn’t count if all you have is the word of someone from today saying that there were people outside of the bible saying these so called prophecies were real.
nope. I have studied them for myself. In fact I can prove it to you base on the prophecies that has time built into them. However I see already that I would be wasting my breath because you are close minded. It’s not only Christians who can be close minded. Genuine Christianity understands how faith operates but also understands that there needs some form of evidence to sprout faith. I’m willing to consider any theory as long as it has facts supporting it. I don’t have to do anything for the world because the world assumes they know and evolutionist are closer to cults then they are to real science because they push an ideology that the leader showed how to disprove. I can spoon feed you or you can say “what if the world has it out for me and I really don’t know the truth so let me learn for my self by actually reading about Darwin and these so called evidence”. People idolize Darwin and Einstein but know nothing of them but what popular science pushes. lol smh. Anyways God bless. My next response will be delayed in the meanwhile do some research by going to the library that is if you have gotten off of being all knowing.
I agree will study everything but the bible?? Why cause the devil doesn’t want us to know how he is trying to bring mankind down with him. Study it while you still have life. Isn’t just so wierd how they pulling Christ out of everything. You can’t even say merry Christmas you have to say happy holidays. Whenever something with Christ is taking out it is implemented with something of the devil. That why we have child molestors teaching our kids and the teacher are smoking the drugs with the students. That’s because we live in a day and time that the society is ignorant to sin. They took it out of the schools. If you choose to take the time to research the word. You will see the truth about but u must beleieve there is a god. Don’t get confuse when you read about someone living to 200 or more years. If god is in it anything is possible. Also you will learn what the world says is good the bible says it bad. What the bibles says is good the world say it bad. The bible is just Basic Instruction Before Leaving Earth. It’s like our policy hand book. Just like at your job they have a policy handbook. If you do not follow either the earthly or spritiual handbook you will be FIRED!!! I pray in name of Jesus that yokes will be destroyed and strong holds. I pray that seed will be planted to whom that reads cause you deserve to know the truth to our existence. All god want is a relationship with us individually but as believers he want us to work together for his will. It’s make sense he made us out of love. It’s pretty sad the creator of the heavens and earth and universe is knocking on the door of hearts to lead us guide us into all truth. To provide for us deliver us from the kingdom of darkness but we are all about self and pride these day. We just ignore him. I love you all. Cause love casteth out fear. Fear from dieing fear from all things cause Jesus is with us. All places at all times
First I want to see where saying Merry Christmas is illegal. Do you think that all this stuff about child molesters is a new thing? These laws are fairly new laws world wide but the same stuff happening today has been happening for thousands of years. The reason you know about it now is that people aren’t afraid to report these crimes like they were back when religion had a strangle hold on people. How is it that you claim people are ignorant of sin when you have fools like yourself and Pat claiming everyone is sinful? Myself I don’t see sin as a worthwhile thing to be trying to avoid. I actually don’t see anything people do as sin but as right or wrong. Many of the so called sins are meant to aid in keeping fools inline.
In other words, you base your “denial” of macroevolution on . . . you don’t believe it? What scientists are “unsure”? List some, with references, please. How does science support the “dirt/rib-to-you” theory of creation? As for the Bible’s historical accuracy, please provide historical evidence of the Exodus from a source other than the Bible. Shouldn’t be difficult, it being such a major event in Egyptian history, right? Thanks!
How genuine are you in wanting to find out the truth?
I’m a scientist by nature. If fact, I despise organized religion. In most cases, I would probably call the religious fanatics lunatics as well, but after hearing about a family members personal account in Haiti, I have to hand it to this “lunatic” Pat Robertson….Haiti may just be a damned country. This family member has been going to Haiti for years doing missionary work. This time was different, obviously. Miraculously, she flew home to the U.S. two hours before the quake hit. She is a spiritual person and does the missionary work out of the kindness of her heart, but is not one of the religious fanatics I mentioned. She said, and I quote “Good people were doing bad things.” Good people she had known for years…doing bad things. The morning of the day the quake hit, she said “a spiritual blackness fell over them…dogs stopped barking…birds stopped chirping.” And yes, Haiti has experienced one natural disaster after another for the past 200 years. The entire Caribbean is plagued with voodoo. Do none of you see a pattern? Crime was as common as water in New Orleans when Katrina hit. I don’t know about you all, but her words sent and eerie chill up my spine.
Judith, what you mention is nothing new . . . and no reason to fall on superstition for explanation. Haiti experiences natural disasters because of its location. Remember the blessed Dominican Republic, the other half of the island, mentioned by Pat Robertson? It had an 8.0 earthquake in 1946, followed by a 7.6 aftershock 4 days later. About 20,000 were left homeless; 100 killed directly by the quake, and about another 2,150 by the tsunamis caused by the quake and aftershock. Between 1919 and today, the Dominican Republic has been hit by 24 hurricanes and tropical storms. As for the behavior of animals: National Geographic, 2003:
Oh yes, as I said before, in most cases I would argue tooth and nail in favor of science. And I am aware, and I do believe that animals have a sense of “something wrong” that is much keener than ours. And again, under normal circumstances I would argue that location of Haiti and the rest of the Caribbean are less than favorable when it comes to natural disaster. Between the location of the plates, deforestation, poverty, etc.. I would have to agree that it’s just the bad luck for them. But haven’t you ever wondered WHY people have bad luck? As I mentioned, I’m not religious, but I do believe in one thing…karma. Karma exists in all forms of organized religion in one form or another…even Christianity. God will punish the wicked, right? As I said, crime and voodoo run rampant in the Caribbean. I’m not attacking you or your article. In fact, I applaud you for defending science and looking at the situation with a level head. I guess I just like to see people keep an open mind…to think. That’s what science is all about, right? The what-if
The thing about is this two other earthquakes occurred in South America one a 5 and the other a 6. Eventually one will happen to the US perhaps in NY. The truth is this there were some good missionaries that died and yet there were prisoners that survived. Pat Robertson’s comment is inconsistent. Jesus did make a comment in the gospels about a tower falling causing many deaths but Christ concerns wasn’t so much the death as much as repentance (changing your moral direction in life). Pat Robertson is a dangerous man perhaps more dangerous then the voo doo priestess conjuring up spells because proper biblical interpretation states that men similar to him are trying to legislate morality and one day it will be illegal and would cost your life if you chose not to worship on Sunday.
In response to science and God. Ha! I write once more to challenge the thinkers. Does science speak to or on,any subject with hypothesising a reference point. ie Time as an abstract method of comparison; length; heat intensity. All of these are based on comparisons devised by mankind. Can thouht be measured? What ruler is used to measure a thought, yet thought exists, how does science measure this.Can science determine whether a dog has thoughts or a slug or a plant? Thus I have shown, and it is acknowledgd in the realm of science, there are aspects of our existential environment, where science is silent. This now begs the question: what reference point has science developed to measure ,quantify or speak on matters relating to God? CaribbeanMan
Great thought. Thought can not be measure just as God can not be measured. Your response echos that of Eistein one of the greatest physicist of all time.
The God which Europe carried to Africa and the Caribbean permitted 400 yrs of slavery. The corrupted message was used in South Africa and across the Deep South, employed by those who wished to postulate that ‘Blacks’ were ‘3/5 ths’, human. How could the proponents,having been steeped in this inheritance and legacy, percieve the manifestation of another peoples religion, as anything but pagan, derived from the brutish heathen. The fear of the unknown, pulsating drum in the middle of the night, strange rituals involving blood and sacrifice(oooh shudder) in cloak of darkness. These actions could never be wholesome having been devised and practised by the uncouth, illiterate lout employed in the field. With such fears accompanied by the prodded imaginations, where was the slanted biased cataloguing of events as told by the reputable governing class. The blockade of Haiti for its distinguished beginnings by all of the dominant colonial powers: France;Spain and England, in their quest to further their (1)territorial influence and (2) their stated desire NOT to permit an independent ‘Black’ ruled territory in the midst of their other prized posessions in the West Indies. Noting that Haiti was the brightest jewel. One must also wonder how the recent conjecture of the USA remaining in Haiti over the long term considering the past, where the US was also complicit in the not recognizing the Independent Statehood of the young Haiti and also having invaded the nation for approximately two decades.Furthered by the support of the Duvaliers in order to ‘keep’ the island from being communists. THE PERFECT STORM by Wasp, Gallo and Normandie
I just want it to be officially known that many of us thinking Christians (no, not an oxymoron) are at least equally appalled by Robertson’s words, not to mention his demeanor. The man has no discretion and many of us would prefer that he simply stopped talking…forever. Yes, the Christian worldview allows for the activity of Satan, and certainly people make agreements with him every day, large and small–it’s never a safe idea. But we should think about things in a factual manner. Fact: Every time a natural disaster is mentioned in the Bible (earthquakes, severe storms or winter weather, whirlwinds/tornadoes), they are attributed to the power of God, not Satan. So Satan didn’t cause this earthquake. Fact: Voodoo is rampant in Haiti. If any spiritual cause is at the root of Haiti’s manifold dilemmas, it’s the ongoing practice of voodoo. Who needs a 200-year-old pact when people are calling on evil spiritual forces all throughout the year? Fact: Christian communities are thriving in Haiti, as they do anywhere there’s a great deal of poverty–they depend on God more than we do, and they are kicking our butts right now in their free-hearted expressions of praise to God in the midst of an insane amount of suffering. God certainly has not abandoned his work in Haiti. I’m thankful for Dr. Gelin’s insightful analysis and work to free the Haitian people of this unhelpful stigma. I’m also thankful for the person who referenced Jesus’ words in Luke 13:4-5, and I think they bear repeating: Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them–do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”
And one more fact: A legend is a legend, people! The way it reads seems like a very reasonable description of any tribal/indigenous worship ceremony to either their local deity or their perception of the Christian God. Or they could’ve done a traditional voodoo ceremony for success in battle. But the best explanation is that the beaten French concocted and embellished it. In other words, don’t spread unsubstantiated legends as fact! It’s like the worst gossip on a global scale!
You are right that people should spread legends as truth but it seems you and most christians don’t take that advice. Compare your beliefs with these Haiti legends and you will find they are both of equal truth.
That should have been shouldn’t spread legends.
No worries! I figured.
What specifically are you referring to that are legends which I and other Christians espouse? If you’re referring to the centuries of multi-author writings we call the Bible, that’s hardly in the same category of an unsubstantiated legend. I realize there are lots of supernatural accounts in there, but that doesn’t make it a collection of legends outright. Maybe I need some clarification on what you meant. Long live bacon! Lisa
As I understand legends, they tend to be stories that are passed down orally in the beginning and eventually written down a few to many years later. There tends to be no other source which can be used to show the truth of them other then the written version. Many of the biblical stories have no historical bases other then word of mouth. Take the stories of Abraham and many within the archeology field say that the town of Ur wasn’t around during the estimated time of him. Camels weren’t domesticated during his time also but the claim was made he was a trader using them. If Jesus was such a profound leader of men, I can’t see the historians of Rome ignoring him as they did. If,as a leader of a nation, you heard about a man who was gathering a following of thousands, would you ignore him as much as the Romans seemed to of in their written records?
Read and study the bible. Study how people first trusted in god and how god worked out on their behalf. Then put god to the test. Then see why the Jesus you are doubting will change your life for ever. Everything is in tere read it and study it. We study to fly all the ways to the moon and back but can’t study the bible. We study to be a doctor but the not the bible. The doctor does the cutting with the knowledge god has given but lord Jesus does the healing. Trust in the lord with all thine heart lean not on to your own understanding but in all thy ways acknowledge him and he shall direct your paths. Even if you are confused or you don’t understand. Just ask god to guide you. It’s says in the bible if a men think he is too wise or has too much wisdom god will not reveal certain things. So even if you going through a situation just just in god that he will bring you through. God bless friend.
Ok, so you’re thinking of the Bible as a story (or collection of stories) that got passed down orally and then later was accepted and put into writing. I still maintain that that is vastly different than this legend in Haiti. I mean the sheer volume and chronological span of the Old Testament for instance puts it in an entirely different category. So for starters, I haven’t heard the thing about Ur or Abraham and his camels. I’ll have to look into that. And you’re right that a lot of the accounts in the Old Testament don’t have another corroborating source. But besides archaeology, what other source would you expect to corroborate the initial wanderings of a bedouin family in the ancient near east? History was a whole different ballgame back then–most of it came from the propaganda machines of powerful kings, and otherwise, it just hasn’t survived. Here, however, are a few archaeological finds that do corroborate biblical accounts: –They’ve found remains of houses that are distinctly Israelite in Egypt, dated at the right time before the exodus. –There’s the Tel Dan stele, which has a neighboring king boasting that he destroyed the “house of David” (this discovery came at a time when secularists were denying that David ever existed) –There’s Senacherib’s prism, which describes the attacks on Lachish and then Jerusalem (as recorded in 2 Kings and Isaiah), where Senacherib tries to cover up the fact that he was unable to conquer it. –They’ve found several seals used by Baruch, the prophet Jeremiah’s right-hand guy. –They’ve just found an inscription at Khirbet Queiyafa that is dated to the 10th century BCE (est. time of King David), that could be a distillation of Hebrew scriptures (the translator definitely believes it to be ancient Hebrew based on certain verbs), which would imply the Bible was written 4 centuries earlier than secularists would claim. Now, obviously it’s a new find, with opposing opinions among scholars, and who knows what will be decided when the dust settles, but this implies that the Bible was written a lot closer to certain accounts and that there was an early more literate Hebrew society at this time. The thing is that none of this proves that the Old Testament is a reliable guide to knowing God or that all the events in it really happened. But I think if you actually gave it a fair reading, you’d sense the marks of authenticity. Have you ever given it a fair reading? Corey is right–you should give the Bible a chance to speak to you for itself. At any rate, the Bible is far more than hearsay or a legend. Christians aren’t idiots who don’t think–there are hundreds of well-trained, careful, culture, history and Bible scholars that believe what the Bible said happened really happened. As for Jesus’ time, I’ve got more thoughts, but I think this post is already too long. I’ll try to post about that tomorrow.
This is exactly why it is a legend or myth. You say that the OT isn’t a good means of knowing the mind of your god but many do say it is. I haven’t seen anything about Khirbet Queiyafa but will look into it more when stuff get published. Where did you get the findings you listed am curious as to who is publishing this.
OK, I’m visiting a relative and may not have time in the next few days, but I’ll get you those sites. But I must say, you’ve misunderstood me. I do believe that the Bible is a reliable guide for both history and for knowing the God who authored it, but you can’t PROVE that by archaeology alone. Sorry about the miscommunication there. More later. Thanks.
Oh I knew that but the thing is the archeology data is about all we have to go by for much of the time period of the OT. If the OT is a reliable guide to history more of the archeology data would be pointing to that. We have little written records from that time period. Another example is the exodus from Egypt. I figure something did happen in Egypt and a good size group of people were exiled to some region but there is no evidence that as vast a number of people claimed by the bible happened. If you had a forced work force leave right after all your cattle and crops had been destroyed, do you really think the Egyptian empire would have kept functioning as it did? According to the numbers I have seen in the bible there would have been few if any of the slave force left to try and restart the crops and herds. This should have seriously hurt the Egyptian empire. Of course you also have to look at the lose of the soldiers during the pursuit. Instead of under thinking what you read in the bible you should look to how it should effect all those around not mentioned. Most scholars seem to agree that the OT was written several hundred years after the time frame for the exodus and that can easily explain why there is so much that doesn’t fit with what is known about that time frame. That is how legends and myths come to be. Have you ever tried a small experiment showing how a short story can change by just passing to 25 or 30 people?
I feel like what you’re saying is kind of contradictory: There isn’t much evidence available from the time of the OT in general. OK, true. So we should expect to be able to find more evidence if the Bible is true. Well, is it possible that most evidence of that time period just didn’t survive? I mean, what do you call the Bible itself? It’s historical literature. It’s been carefully written and passed down. The Jewish people are known for taking their written records very seriously. Now, the thing about biblical history is that it is unique for its time. No myths that were written from that era contained anything like the historical, factual, even mundane elements that the OT does. But no history at that time contained the level of aesthetic, beauty and metanarrative that the OT does either. Also, like I said before, every other “history” at the time was pretty propaganda-related and always made the king look good. If you read 1-2 Kings and 1-2 Chronicles, more than 90% of the kings are portrayed in a very unflattering light. That is significantly unique. Also, you would think if the Pentateuch was a collection of myths of the origins of a people group, that it would portray them as a noble and victorious people (think of the Arthur legends, for instance). But instead, they’re constantly shooting themselves in the foot by disobeying their God. It doesn’t follow the pattern of either a straight-up myth or a straight-up history. Those are all very good reasons to see the Bible as more than a myth. There are certainly elements that you can argue are mythical, but you must deal with the Bible as a historical document. Also, when you say “most scholars” date the Bible later than it claims to have taken place, you are leaving out a very vast swath of reputed scholarship. I don’t know what percentage give the Bible an earlier date, but it’s not a puny minority. And you could say, “Oh, well conservative scholars are biased.” I must say that to believe that non-conservative scholars don’t have a vested interest in portraying the Bible as an unreliable guide to God and daily life, that is a very naive position. Everyone has presuppositions. Now, as for what you said about Egypt, I think we see the propaganda machine at work. They wouldn’t record a defeat like what they suffered when the Israelites left Egypt. It wouldn’t be in the court’s best interest. Also, do you think that the Israelite population was the only slave population they had? I don’t think so. They were dominating a very large region at the time, and I’ve seen walls celebrating their military victories, with a little iconic guy for each enslaved people, and only a few of them have characteristics of Israelites/Semites. Yeah, it would’ve been a blow to their economy, but it wouldn’t be irreparable. Also, this is fascinating: Right about after the conservative dating of the exodus, one of Egypt’s pharoahs instituted a totally unique period of monotheism. They worshipped the sun god alone (remember, one of the major plagues was darkness). This response makes perfect sense in an Ancient Near East mindset where you start to worship the god who defeated you (although you usually just fold him/her into your pantheon, but the Hebrews were clearly monotheists). I find that very compelling. The pharoah’s name was Akhenaten/Amenhotep IV, and is dubbed the “heretic pharoah.” Alrighty, moving on to the New Testament. For the sake of space, I’ll direct you to my friend’s blog http://veritasnetwork.wordpress.com/2009/02/ for historical corroboration of the person of Jesus, mode of death and the impact of his early followers on the Roman empire. It’s continued from the January post, so check there, too. Also, there were tons of insurrectionists at this time to keep track of, and it did only take them three years to kill him. Did you mean that the Romans would’ve acknowledged him as a threat, or that they would’ve acknowledged him as a great teacher? I’m not sure what you meant. In conclusion, if you’re bent on dismissing the Bible as myth, nothing I can say and no evidence I can give can prove you wrong. But you also cannot prove me wrong, if, like you say, there’s so little hard evidence. It comes down to a matter of faith and presuppositions for both of us. I also want to say that God loves you a very great deal, and I can say from personal experience that He’s a beautiful and amazing God, and I do want you to know him. His desire is for you to be reconciled to himself through the death of Jesus, his son, so that you can find ultimate happiness and purpose in knowing him. He doesn’t delight in punishing sin, but as a faithful judge, he must, and ultimately, he will. He’s also been grossly misrepresented in pretty much every corner of our culture. My appeal to you is to read a book or two in the Bible to really see who Jesus is–I’d suggest John or Luke–and let him speak for himself. He loves you, he knows your name, and he’ll let you know that in reading the Bible if you allow him to. After all, it’s the intellectually honest thing to do. I’ve opened up a big can of worms here and I didn’t intend to get entrenched in a long discussion, so I’m not sure if I’ll keep putting a lot of time into this. If you really want to keep discussing facts, etc., I’d direct you to the blog above (he’s got a lot more time and interest for these discussions), or let me know if you’d like to continue over email. Oh, and before I forget, here are some links on the Khirbet Qeiyafa inscription: blog.bibleplaces.com/2010/01/qeiyafa-inscription-translation-by.html http://in.news.yahoo.com/139/20100110/981/tsc-the-bible-may-have-been-written-hund.html http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/30/world/middleeast/30david.html And did you have somewhere I could read more about the Abraham/camel issue?
Yeah I am not a great writer and will at times get ahead of myself. It can cause confusion not just for those reading but for myself. The problem with using the bible as evidence is that the oldest copy that I have heard of isn’t old compared to the time frame we are talking about. You also have to know which version of the bible is being used to get a better understanding of where each is coming from. I won’t be able to do it this time but in my next response I should have a few links with the research I am basing my info on. I can’t agree that it is historical literature as much as just literature. With the OT do you believe the first five books were written by one person or are you of the belief that it was written by as many as 5 people? Was it written during the events it is telling the stories or was it written 500-1000 years later? Yes propaganda has been used for most of mans history . Actually I think that the Hebrews were always trying to explain why they weren’t as powerful a nation as they should have been if they had a god favoring them. They use the faults of their leaders as an excuse for why they are always falling out of favor of this god. If you are trying to get people to follow your rules do you tell them how those that came before were great and worthy in the eyes of god or do you tell people that god allowed them to fail because of their faults? I doubt that the numbers we are talking about wouldn’t have been mentioned. According to the bible there were 640,000 men and their families that left Egypt. The number of slaves would exceed 1,000,000 when you add in the women. The numbers from there can go as high as 3,000,000 when you count the children. There is no way an empire of the type Egypt was could defend against a massive death toll from crops not getting planted and harvested when you lose those types of numbers. You have to remember that all the first born of the Egyptian were also dead and the cattle died not once but twice, Then you have the locust that destroyed all the crops for that year. They might not have recorded a defeat like that but there would have been some kind of record of the years that followed noting the deaths of the people in that area due to all the plagues that affected them. Actually yes I have heard of Akhenaten/Amenhotep IV. If I can find the link tomorrow I will post it also. A theory I was reading states that this event you are talking about is what the exodus is based on. The numbers of those exiled with Akhenaten/Amenhotep IV are much smaller then the bible but if the Pentateuch was written 500-1000 years after this event it would easily explain why the two stories are the same but different. Like you I have a link for you on another perspective of the story of Jesus. http://www.rationalrevolution.net/articles/jesus_myth_history.htm I am actually reading this article right now and will read the second part before the end of this week. I would say that as long as he was teaching the pacifism as parts of his teaching are about they wouldn’t have a problem with him. He wasn’t a threat but with the number of followers he supposedly had, leaders of the Roman empire would have taken notice and investigated. I won’t be reading those links until tomorrow but will try to if I don’t forget. The Hebrews weren’t the only ones that keep good records. Both Egyptians and Romans kept good records but because of time and man’s actions we don’t have all those records.
I do have to drop the camel claim. I have been researching it today and with all the sites I went to there can be no claim made either way. Both sides seem to be using very slim information for their proof of that event. This is one of the sites I base some of my views of the OT on. http://www.worldagesarchive.com/Reference_Links/False_Testament_(Harpers).htm
Stop JUDGING haitian people due to the haitian History, all i can say, WHO killed the INDIANS when haiti used to name Hispagnola. we need Jesus in your life Pat. The earthquake can happen anywhere. You are not better than Black..we are all equal in one way..when we die…we are going in one place….when we die our skin doesn’t stay fresh for life…well think about it…we all make mistake..we all practice or do something that another nation won’t like…every country have their own culture. Pat what have you done for people in needs..
I think he judging. I think just putting bibilcal perspective on the earth. Like in the bible says in the end there will be earthquake in diverse places. So the wars the floods and earthquake is just prophecies being fullfilled. And when we die yes are flesh will return to it’s orginal state which is dust. But or soul is what has a final destination. Which is heaven or hell. When Jesus will come to bring judgment. First to the Christian that dead in his name by rebirth. Then to the unbeliever. However haiti had been spiritually blinded by Satan doing evil works. Not all but however god curse the land yes. Cause it says in his work that not to practice witchcraft soccery or voodoo. If you do this you will see the protection of god removed. But what Haiti need to do as a people is really study the bible and find out what does Jesus require to be part of the kingdom of god. And repent. Only god can keep people Alive for 12 days under rubble and all that mess. Everything happens for a reason. God bless and if we believe in Jesus we need to find out what we need to do as servants of god. It’s not easy but is all worth it in then end. He who endureth to the end the same shall be saved!!
Pat, you are so wrong and you are worse than SATAN by judging other people, you need to repent and praise the Real GOD, whoever you are, you are making things worse and try to get money from people. Again Pat, telling people false Hystory about Haiti when you don’t even know what you have wrote, you should get sued for that because you are not a person, mostly like an Animal…Haitian are nation like other nation, stop judging use, we took our independence because we were strong…Do you think you are going to stay alive for life…so take care of your family’s life…get the story right. Does it say in the Bible? that Haiti used to be Hispagnola before the FRENCH killed the Indians in Haiti. If a nation came to a country and started killing people who you think is the DEVIL. hey pat get your information right before you start spreading false statement. God bless you all. God love you all…
Haiti is not the only problem, all of us…we need to change and stop judging..check yourself before you talk about someone else. How many times have you mastubated. If you were PURE ignorant you would not be here in this planet. You need to read the Bible carefully so you can understand it right. How did someone know that the earthquake was going to happen…Your stories guys might mean something else..but if you believe your dream means that Haiti deserve what happened i won’t judge you but thing happen everywhere. Haitians are strong like other country. VOODOO is a religion by the devil..but haiti is not the only one who practice voodoo..Here in America people celebrate Halloween so what is it? I don’t celebrate CRAP like that. Black magic and White maggic are the same…Haitians are not the only one who practice voodoo..what about the someone in your family is not sick..then you mention…( Oh God none of my kids or family have not been sick ..Then you know on the WOOD? what God got to do with Wood? so what is that..I don’t do such thing like that. Again get your information right…